Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Should You Be Debt Free Before Getting Married?

Since, I announced my engagement there has been one or two people commenting anonymously that my fiance and I should become completely debt free before walking down the aisle. However, is that what most readers feel to? More importantly, what do the financial experts think?

I started my research, with a search of Google. During that search I found the following article on the LA Times website.

To hear Summer Brown and Briana Biddle talk about it, their upcoming wedding and civil commitment will be a fairy tale, complete with happily ever after.

But fairy tales can turn dark pretty quickly, and a look at the couple's finances shows that the poisoned apple in this story could be money.

Let's start with the wedding: Brown has a $986 wedding dress and a $2,600 engagement ring, both bought on credit. Then there are older debts: a $20,000 time share on which Biddle is not making payments and $17,000 in student loans for Brown, among others.

To the rescue rides financial planner Alfred McIntosh, who has agreed to look at the couple's finances as part of The Times' Money Makeover series.

Before the wedding, couple need to cut debts and stop overspending -- LA Times

As the article correctly pointed out latter in the article, domestic partnerships between two people of the same sex is not legally considered to be a marriage in California, but this couple would assume many of the same risks that married couples run, such as the higher earner potentially becoming responsible for spousal support of the other.

Now to the real issue. The debt going into marriage. This particular couple has a combined income of $79,000. Besides the money borrowed for the wedding items mentioned above there is more debt that was revealed to the financial counselor.

Brown has saved $2,200 in a retirement account, and they have $57 in their joint savings account. But their balance sheet is dominated by debt.

Biddle carries about $11,250 in debt on two credit cards, at interest rates of 25% and 30%, and $553 in a line of credit associated with her checking account. Brown carries about $1,450 on one card at a 7.23% interest rate.

They're racking up 45.2% interest on the credit line they took out to buy the engagement ring because they stopped making payments and the rate jumped. And they owe $3,000 on two more credit cards that they hold together.

Brown also has $17,000 in student loans at 2.48% and a $21,000 car loan at 4.99%.

It was during the discussion of debt that the meeting with the financial planner became tense. With a hollow look on her face, Biddle confessed that she hadn't been completely straightforward about her debts and spending.

Brown became upset.

"I'm bitter now," Brown said, "because I've done everything I was supposed to do financially and she didn't."

McIntosh slipped into his therapist role.

"Since you don't like letting her down," he told Biddle, "and you want to do better at this, you have one choice: to get better at this."

All that debt -- and its continued accumulation -- is the most pressing problem and the first thing the pair need to address, McIntosh said. "Stop using those cards," he told them.
I agree 100%, it is a problem that the pair must address and address now. However, does that mean that you have to be totally debt free before entering into the bonds of marriage?
McIntosh told them to pay for their wedding with money earned outside of their regular salaries. Brown believes she can bring in about $1,000 a month by throwing parties to sell products out of her home. Biddle predicts she can bring in $1,300 extra a month by doing freelance interpreting for the deaf.

"You should get married only at the time that you can pay for your wedding without taking out any more debt," he said. "This is making a dream come true."

Again, I agree totally with this financial counselor, but what to do with debt accumulated before marriage?

Since the LA Times article really didn't answer this question, I turn to another page. This time I land on a document from Utah State University.
Debt can be addressed prior to getting married or after you get married, but either way it must be addressed. But remember that the less debt you have going into marriage, the greater your chances for success and happiness in marriage (Schramm & Lee, 2003). So consider paying off your debt before tying the knot. Here’s how one person did it.

I think, we finally have an answer. A couple should reduce as much debt as possible. Yes being totally debt free is best, but is not the answer. The most important thing is that the entire wedding (and honeymoon) needs to be paid in cash. The other thing is that e couple should set down together and discuss their finances, being totally open about what debt they are bringing into this relationship. To quote one of the best known financial gurus, Dave Ramsey, "plan your work, work your plan." To help you (and Pat and I) with this USU has included a worksheet in the linked pdf file to print off so you can list all of the debts that you would be bring into the marriage. In so doing you can have complete knowledge of each others debts. Which is very important, because the last thing you want is to accumulate more debt. Rather, you and your new spouse want to build wealth so that you can fulfill your dreams together.

Steve Bayer, the local representative (in Topeka, KS) for Crown Financial Ministries, had this to say, "I saw a survey that said 86% of divorces listed finances as the #1 or 2 reason for that divorce...hmmm. In this case Kevin you describe that they are continuing not only to apparently ignore their debt but they are adding more to it based on the dollars being spent on the planned wedding.

God's Word has 2,350 verses in the bible on money and possessions...that's a lot! It must be important based on the volume contained there!

So, do they value God's opinion? See Joshua 1:8, Prov 11:28, Prv 28:25, Lk 16:2, 11-13
Let's not forget Luke 16:10 "He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much ..."
By the way Psalm 37:21 is a pretty direct verse about not paying ones debt."



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go ahead share your thoughts with me now, my ears are open. I'm always eager to hear what you think.
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14 comments:

Craig said...

I am no where close to getting married so can't speak firsthand on experience. But it seems that you should be. It would be difficult if your partner had loads of debt that now becomes your responsibility. You both should do everything possible to square off all debts, at least credit card debt.

http://www.gaycenter.org/ said...

Dont listen to the naysayers about getting married before you get out of debt. I think you should marry your partner too. And you can save money too, if you share a civil union with another couple. Basically you would be splitting the costs of flowers setting and preacher. Be proud and dont let people discouage you. Make it fun and get lots of pictures.

http://www.gaycenter.org/ said...

Helzberg offers discount on domestic partner rings sets. 10% off in some states.

Greg C. said...

My wife had bad debts and was worse off than I was when we met. I wasn't in great shape either. So I couldn't just make things go away, either.

I was bitter like the woman in the story. I felt like I had done everything I could to sacrifice and save money while also getting my credit and debt straight. However, when it comes down to it there is no perfect time to get married ( or have kids). I wanted to marry my wife and I. We took on what she brought with her together.

HS @ Our Debt Blog said...

I'm lost, why don't your list all your current debts and her debts on a blog post, add them up and ask us for opinion.

Remember, the minute you get married, her debt becomes your debt, your house is hers and if you get divorced you might have to pay alimony... a never ending debt LOL

Tell us a bit more about her! what is her career, how much debt, etc.

HS

Cheryl said...

I think it's a personal decision, and googling for an answer is certainly not the way to find it.
You should talk to a trusted friend, family member or maybe your pastor. Email Dave Ramsey and see what he says. I think we both already know his answer.
That being said, you run a "debt free" blog, and do a lot of talking about being debt free - so your readers are going to hold you accountable for your actions. If you choose to pay for a wedding before paying off ALL of your debt, it goes against everything you preach about on this blog - but that's your business - it's also your choice to post your personal business on the internet for the world to see, and people will judge you for your decisions.

Becky R said...

HI! I defanitly agree that the wedding should be all cash. I also think you should countine to pay off as much debt as possible before marriage. But as long as you are both are completely honest with what debt you have and are both ok with that, and you have talked to a trusted elder (pastor, deacon, etc), and had premartial counseling (which my church offers for free) then I think it would be ok to have debt still before you get married.

Also I think if during your marriage it is the plan that you will both work, then you should both be working now.

enoughwealth@yahoo.com said...

While it would be best to be debt free when you get married, I don't think you both want to wait that long. It would also be very stressful if one of you got debt free a lot sooner than the other.

I'd suggest you plan exactly how (at what speed) you will pay off you combined debt when you're married, based on income plan (eg. both working) and combined budget that you develop together.

Then, put that in place for a couple of months to check it is doable (eg. both have jobs) and you are both happy sticking to it.

Once you've succeeded in sticking to the debt elimination plan for 3 months, you can put it on hold while you use the debt repayment money to save up enough to pay for all the wedding and honeymoon expenses.

After the wedding it should then be easy to restart the debt repayments and get debt free according to your plan.

If you hit any snags with this idea (eg. can't agree on a budget and plan, can't get a job, can't stick with the plan for 3 months) then I suspect you are heading for serious issues trying to get debt free after getting married.

Anonymous said...

I think you should be debt free or very close to it. No IRS debt, no credit card debt. The only debt that I think would be ok would be a mortgage and maybe a car or medical debt. Not all 3 at once though. You would have to sit down and make sure your earnings are enough to service the debt. I certainly wouldn't marry anyone with IRS debt or credit card debt. To me it shows a lack of maturity to handle life and your personal finances. I noticed that you purchased a wedding dress. While I am happy that you found a good deal, I can't help but wonder if you feel guilt about wasting money when you owe so much. That $100.00 could have got you that much closer to being debt free. With your debts and very little emergency fund, I would never have wasted the $100.00 no matter how good a deal. I see great deals every day on wedding dresses. Another one would have come along when you could be in a better position to buy such things.You said its going to hang in the closet for now. That means $100.00 is sitting there while your debt accumulates more interest. You have to remember that your spending for "things" that you didn't really need (Fingerhut?)is what got you into debt in the first place. Did your bride to be get a job?
adomesticprincess in Oregon

Edie said...

Kevin: Dave Ramsey would recommend you get married - he doesn't put things like getting married or having kids ahead of getting out of debt. What he does advise is to put the debt snowball on hold and pay cash in these situations. Then pick up the debt together, live below your and your spouse's means, move forward as a unit, and get out of debt together.

I say get married. Be happy. Move forward with your new spouse in a responsible manner.

I am very happy for you and your fiance.

Edie

Prince of Thrift said...

Edie -
Thanks Edie. That is what I figured he would say. However he gets so many emails, it would be hard for mine to get noticed and then on top of that for me to hear it, since he isn't on live here, I work so much, and when I do hear the rebroadcasts, I hear the same shows on Friday that I heard on Tuesday. Or so it seems.

Prince of Thrift said...

Cheryl - you are correct, I do openly put my information out there and I value the opinions of all my readers. However as Eddie just said, putting the progress toward getting debt free on idle as I pay for cash would still fall in line with that goal and as Edie I believe what Dave Ramsey would say. The biggest thing is not creating new debt in the process and keeping all the existing debts current.

Wayne Tully said...

I was in debt and then my wife was very in debt but we got married anyway and got more in debt, but then over the course of 8 years we got out of debt and vowed never to get back in that situation again, of course it is tempting to get a credit card o two, but no we save for what we need now and that requires a self discipline that we are still perfecting even to this day.

Prince of Thrift said...

Thanks Wayne. How long have you and your wife been married now?

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